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 Chapter I: Diplomatic Tides

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Laufe
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter I: Diplomatic Tides    Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:41 pm

How can your Permanently steal the CGT? It's like saying you've Permanently stolen the technology for the jet engine. Technology isn't something you can 'permanently steal' sooo ... lol.
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter I: Diplomatic Tides    Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:01 pm

Unless someone took it from the NR (which they didn't), then it would have been permanently in its possession.

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PostSubject: Re: Chapter I: Diplomatic Tides    Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:47 am

The CTG is Technology, you can't steal technology.
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter I: Diplomatic Tides    Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:25 am

The CTG is a sensor. It was the only sensor the Empire had that could detect stealth technology. I'm positive if someone steals it, the technology is gone as well. End of story.

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PostSubject: Re: Chapter I: Diplomatic Tides    Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:33 pm

Technology is the technological form of an Idea or an Concept. You can't 'steal' someone's concept or Idea, unless we got some Inception shit going on, and I didn't notice. All you did was steal the device ... did you steal every scientist, every Data bank, and every body who helped build it? I'm going to go with no because you didn't.

So, now we have it, you haven't permanently stolen the CTG.
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter I: Diplomatic Tides    Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:03 pm

1. It didn't come out of nowhere, the Empire knew the rebel alliance was coming hence "IT'S A TRAP!". The Empire wanted them to come, so they could kill them off in one stroke. I never said I detected the type of ship, and it's not hard at all to differentiate ripples to know the quantities and sizes of ships. Sometimes you can even make out the shape, and some what tell the class from that information. You have no sources supporting it'd take hours, I myself have sources stating that such a scan can be done quickly by a starfighter. RPG Sourcebooks FTW.

The Empire had magnetic signature scanning? Last time I checked the CIS had them and used it to detect republic stealth ships, and then you used them to detect my stealth ships.

I'm not detecting the ship itself at all, so your argument about shield camouflage and all that isn't necessary. I detected a lone, faint ripple, which we assume is a stealth ship. For all we know it's some weird asteroid. Nothing supports the CGT is the only sensor eva to detect stealth ships. Last time I checked it didn't exist during the Clone Wars or the Old Republic, they had technology to detect stealth ships back then. You can't permanently steal technology, it's literally saying the U.S permanently stole tank technology from Britain. You can't and you never will be able too. You'd have to destroy all prototypes, all video/images of said prototypes, all records, all data, kill the researchers, kill any people who even witnessed or heard it (Who can provide valuable info to rebuild it), etc.. Considering the Empire, said information was probably strictly confidential, and was probably "black" so it doesn't exist, thus you'll never find a list of said people.

No, you've had the last 200 years. The Republic was invaded and conquered by the Mandalorians & Empire during the Bloody Core Wars. It's very difficult to fund a multi-billion credit project and ships, when you need said credits to buy & transport illegal weapons & munitions, pay off officials, fund hidden bases, pay guerrillas (Even they get paid, unless you have them raid locals. In which case they get no support from said locals.), and many other things a rebel movement must pay for.

Republic was the most advanced? Yeah... You should've read the private Mando section and me and Cab talking. We were kinda far ahead of you, you were still using technology from the Clone Wars era. While we have technology from the BCW era. That's a 500 year gap.

The Mandos, will put all of their technology at their disposal to protect their national leaders. That is why, they detected it. They are using the best sensors, even experimental ones at that fact, to protect their leader. On top of that, the Mandos are perfectly capable of funding and developing their own tech, but they seriously prefer to steal technology, and work on it from there.

2. Show me on the wikia where it talks about things such as Alliance business and political culture then.

The game is non-canon, and is 700 years in the future. Duchess Satine Kryze was Mand'alore, and she was also the head of government.

If you don't think about what could happen if going through another's territory... Your government will fall apart, really fast. They could easily be blitzed.

4. Whatever, I'll edit it.
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter I: Diplomatic Tides    Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:11 pm

You know there was no need to repeat the CTG part, since I already did that ...
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter I: Diplomatic Tides    Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:48 pm

Laufey wrote:
You know there was no need to repeat the CTG part, since I already did that ...

I made my post long before yours. But before posting I went to 7-11, came back, ate my food, drank my drinks, watched T.V..
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter I: Diplomatic Tides    Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:01 am

1. Umm, a scan of that magnitude, when you don't even have a scanner that can do that? Okay, buddy.

I don't recall stating the Empire had a sensor that could detect magnetic signatures. However, with the sources I acquire, I believe stealth technology of the future grew far more advanced and the magnetic signature sensor eventually vanished, along with the past. After all, there would be no way to recover such a sensor when it was only ever used by the CIS, and all their technology was either seized or destroyed by the Galactic Empire.

The Empire DID possess a Crystal Gravfield Trap (CGT). It is a very expensive and extremely rare type of sensor that uses a synthetic crystal grid to detect and identify fluctuations in the local gravity field. So you see, normal ship sensors can't detect stealth technology even a little bit. How in the world could the Mandos acquire this tech? I don't think the Fel Empire was able to discover this rare crystal since it was only used by the first Galactic Empire. For goodness sake, if it was an asteroid, your sensors would TELL you its an asteroid. You should read up on sensors.

The IMPERIAL SOURCEBOOK, STAR WARS SOURCEBOOK, THE THRAWN TRILOGY SOURCEBOOK, THE FAR ORBIT PROJECT, THE ESSENTIAL GUIDE TO PLANETS AND MOONS, and THE COMPLETE STAR WARS ENCYCLOPAEDIA are all evidence that the Crystal Gravfield Trap is the only sensor that can RELIABLY (read my words carefully) detect a ship with an active cloaking device. Any other sensor created was probably a failure, some way or another.

1.a.) The New Rep had hidden bases for the longest time, so why would they need to be funded? The Mandos and Imperials invaded the New Rep towards the END of the Bloody Core Wars, still giving the New Rep a few hundred years to develop its stealth technology.


The BCW era? *chuckles* What BCW era? That's a fanon era, and last time I checked, there were no BCW-era ships made for the New Republic at all. Unless you plan on creating an entire ship database, stop saying "this and that is in the Clone Wars era". Obviously, they are modernised.

Wow, they go to great lengths when New Alderaan is basically in the centre of their territory.

2. Proof #1

Proof #2

And google any information you may need.

I realise that, but the Mandalorian government has a Prime Minister. Therefore, the Prime Minister is (or should be, since you know nothing about politics and alternate it to fit your desires) the head of state and head of government. I see the Mand'alor fulfilling the role of a war leader instead of a politician, considering the current Mand'alor barely wants this peace, and seems not to be involved in much of the Federation's politics.

You do realise you just contradicted your own statement, right?

ANYWAY, edit your post accordingly, and remove the part about the sensors since the Mandos DO NOT have such type of sensory and never could. It isn't easy to develop your own equipment to detect stealth technology EVEN if you have stealth technology in your possession.

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PostSubject: Re: Chapter I: Diplomatic Tides    Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:18 am

A crystal gravfield trap (CGT) was a rare and expensive type of sensor that used a synthetic crystal grid to detect and identify fluctuations in the local gravity field. They could be blocked by the presence of mass, not being able to detect a ship on the far side of a planet due to its mass.

CGTs were the only sensor that could reliably detect a ship with an active cloaking device. Bartokk assassins hired by Groodo the Hutt had access to a CGT sensor and thus were able to detect the cloaked Sith Infiltrator of Darth Maul.

When Grand Admiral Thrawn blockaded Coruscant with a number of cloaked asteroids, locating them became a top priority. The New Republic did not possess any CGTs, and so was required to attempt to steal one from the Imperial base at Bilbringi. Garm Bel Iblis had had one before Battle of Svivren, but it got lost.

The LightStealth-18 Reconnaissance Ship, used by the New Republic during the Yuuzhan Vong War, was equipped with such device as part of its sensor array.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Crystal_gravfield_trap

vey rare indeed.
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter I: Diplomatic Tides    Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:10 am

1. Scanners are apart of the sensors.

No way to recover... Now your retconning, we've both used it dozens of times, starting when you used it against me.

Sensors don't tell you what something is, they tell you the mass, density, speed, direction, size, shape and various other bits of information that either you, or another computer determine what it is.

You got those sources from the wikia, I actually have some of those sourcebooks. There are other ways to detect stealth ships. After reading some of the sourcebooks you listed, they say nothing about them being the only sensors, but being one of the successful ones, seriously suggesting there are more.

Hidden bases still need a thing called money to operate. I invaded you at the very beginning of the BCW, I even invaded you before it started, invading Vulpter as a preemptive strike. I conquered over half of the Republic, and when we had the armistice, I still kept said conquered planets. Peace lasted about 2 years before shit hit the fan, and the Republic was dominated entirely. You didn't have hundreds of years, the final push into Republic territory took about a year, considering the military was devastated, heavily set back or poorly trained (You had planets to recover.), the Republic didn't have much of a chance. The Republic then was occupied for about a decade, until the Mandalorian Civil War started, which resulted in a 3 or so year long conflict, and the Republic became an independent government. Considering how these events transpired, you would've had decades of recovery to perform. Considering it's a time of peace a stealth ship isn't gonna be #1 on your priorities. Plus a stealth ship's function (Stealth infiltration, reconnaissance, etc..) can easily be replaced through other means.

Me and Caboose kinda specifically stated the stealth ships you had utilized Clone Wars era technology. Modernization would've happened post-MCW (Mandalorian Civil War) and probably jointly with the RMF (AKA your allies) who had more money than you (at the time). And the RMF had a headstart, considering they inherited the Mandalorian Empire's stealth projects, which are still listed in the private sections.

2. OK, the Republic is Human-centered, and has corporations thats enslaves alien races. Good job on your equal rights. I doubt it exists currently though. Just pointing that out Razz

Imagine the RMF as Norway, Mand'alore fills the role of a "king", and has veto power on many things, but doesn't use it a lot out of respect and trust of his government and counterpart (Prime Minister). He also basically controls the military. What makes you assume he doesn't want peace though?

Martok the CTG isn't rare if a random no-name group of thugs has them. We're not even sure if its a ship at all, hence they delegated it to the RIS.
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter I: Diplomatic Tides    Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:56 am

First and Foremost: *Sighs* I will not stand here much longer to argue with you, Nuch. This is a plot, and I want it moving along within the next 24 hours. Get your act straight, or don't join our creative writing challenges at all. Before you blab about something you think you know in your writing, please remember that none of these things have ever been discussed on this board fir the current era. Truth be told: we still need to rework a lot of the site's history, technology, political systems, and agencies. Instead of bantering, we should collaborate to create the site's history to perfect the game. However, I'll leave that discussion for the staff forum.

Sensors: Believe me, Nuch, I am well aware. I did my history on sensors, and have quite a wide range of knowledge. According to a dozen sources, sensors could, depending on the type, detect and analyse many forms of data, such as electromagnetic radiation, sound and vibration, gravity, nuclear radiation, magnetic fields (thus the magnetic signature tracker), heat, pressure, trace chemicals, or the emissions of other sensors. Alas, sensors are not perfect as you may believe. You have to take into account that your ship is not equipped with every known sensor in the galaxy, nor can it ever be since some of the sensors that did exist are not, for lack of better words, 'extinct'. There are a multitude of natural occurrences which can interfere with sensors, which, as I say again, include cloaking devices and stealth technology. I will not repeat myself again and again because you refuse to accept what is truth. Unless you sent scientists to who-knows-where to retrieve the information that a crystal gravfield trap and magnetic signature sensor exists at all.

--Aural Sensor: I will let you know that every ship has an aural sensor, which could give audio simulations of the sounds of nearby spaceship's engines and other relevant sounds in the vacuum of space. This was done to give a spaceship's crew a rough idea of where surrounding ships were when they were not visible on a ship's screens.

Perhaps, if the Alliance stealth ships get too close to you, then you may role-play that your aural sensor detected the sound of a ship's engine port side, starboard, or whatever area the vessel is.

--Magnetic Signature Sensor: According to my sources, the magnetic signature sensor was used to monitor an Imperial Star Destroyer's hull, and that was it. It was completely different from what the notorious Separatist Admiral Trench used when he dealt with the Old Republic's stealth cruisers, a case which involved Anakin Skywalker, his padawan, Ahsoka Tano, and their master, Obi-Wan Kenobi. The Separatist did use magnetic (more commonly known as "Tracking") torpedoes, however, but the magnetic signature could only be tracked because Anakin de-cloaked the stealth ship. Since the Alliance stealth cruisers did no such thing, it is impossible for you to even track them via magnetic signature. Also, do note that Admiral Trench had to lower his ship's shields to fire the tracking torpedo, and as would you (though I do not believe you'd attack an unknown ship out of the blue). Now that you know exactly how Admiral Trench was able to track (not detect) the stealth ship, we can go on in peace I hope.

Bloody Core Wars - You must differentiate "invade" and "intrude". In the military aspect, invading requires troops to land upon a planet. Intruding refers to what the Mandalorians and Imperials actually accomplished; they never landed troops on the planet of Tython, but flew into restricted space uninvited.

And are you not forgetting one very important thing? Martok made sure his military was reformed and returned to its former glory during reconstruction as well.

I don't care what Laufey has to say at all. This is between you and I. You can state all you want, but that doesn't change the fact I told you all (and role-played) it a dozen times that all the vessels used by the BCW-era New Republic were modernised. And at that point, we even commenced our own modernisation program for the invention of new vessels. We didn't need your worthless money. We have scientists of our own, which are quite brilliant as a matter of fact. We'd have knowledge of anything we needed to know about our stealth ships and stealth technology in general and could make several stealth ships with simple modifications that would bring it up to the modern galaxy's standards, whereas the Mandalorian Empire had a single stealth ship that could not be duplicated (something we both agreed on).

Culture: Mhm

Manda'lor: Nuch, you have little knowledge of politics. The meaning of a Manda'lor is basically a warlord, but now you are changing his role to a monarch. It's quite foolish really. But, that's how you want to run "your" (an overstatement) faction, then go ahead.

CTG: So you're telling me it isn't rare, when there are sources that support it is? Yes, because I'm going to believe you over them. Wow, if the sensors you DON'T have cannot detect whether something is a ship or not, then your crew must've been thrown into the armed forces from the day they reached adolescence. From the amount of knowledge a NORMAL sensor gives you, you should be able to decide the mass, speed, etc.. However, you don't have the necessary equipment to detect an active cloaked vessel so I won't even go there.

All you have to do is stop flip-flapping your flapperjack and edit your post, or we'll get nowhere.


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PostSubject: Re: Chapter I: Diplomatic Tides    Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:31 am

Martok wrote:
[color:858d=navyblue--Aural Sensor: I will let you know that every ship has an aural sensor, which could give audio simulations of the sounds of nearby spaceship's engines and other relevant sounds in the vacuum of space. This was done to give a spaceship's crew a rough idea of where surrounding ships were when they were not visible on a ship's screens.
Excuse me for moment, While, I and many others laught our heads off.
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter I: Diplomatic Tides    Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:58 am

Laufey wrote:
Martok wrote:
[color:1c78=navyblue--Aural Sensor: I will let you know that every ship has an aural sensor, which could give audio simulations of the sounds of nearby spaceship's engines and other relevant sounds in the vacuum of space. This was done to give a spaceship's crew a rough idea of where surrounding ships were when they were not visible on a ship's screens.
Excuse me for moment, While, I and many others laught our heads off.

scratch Nerd thing? *shrug*
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter I: Diplomatic Tides    Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:19 am

If you're going to quote something, do it right.

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PostSubject: Re: Chapter I: Diplomatic Tides    Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:25 am

Because sound totally works..... In space.....
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter I: Diplomatic Tides    Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:36 am

*Sighs* Goes to show how much you know about the Star Wars galaxy. Though it is scientifically impossible, the aural sensor was a weapon of LucasArts' to counter people's beliefs that sound didn't exist in space...Star Wars space.

References include Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope radio drama and Enemy Lines II: Rebel Stand.

Quote :
These sensors were "invented" to explain why sound was heard in space in the Star Wars films, despite the physical impossibility of that (as there is no substance that can transmit soundwaves). This phenomenon is seen in a number of science fiction films and games, not just the Star Wars ones, and although conflicting physics, is generally accepted as part of suspension of disbelief, as the audience would be left confused otherwise.

So you see, the aural sensor does indeed exist, and there is sound in space. Beware: this is my first step in disproving that not all earthly physics apply to the Star Wars universe.

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PostSubject: Re: Chapter I: Diplomatic Tides    Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:30 am

lulz

It's funny because your wrong.
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter I: Diplomatic Tides    Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:18 am

It's funny because I'm right and you are wrong. Anyhow, I won't argue with someone the likes of you. Nuch, apply what I have said to your post to perfect it and make it in accordance with the Roleplaying Rules. The Mandalorians cannot detect something they do not have the sensors for.

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PostSubject: Re: Chapter I: Diplomatic Tides    Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:14 pm

Martok wrote:
It's funny because I'm right and you are wrong. Anyhow, I won't argue with someone the likes of you. Nuch, apply what I have said to your post to perfect it and make it in accordance with the Roleplaying Rules. The Mandalorians cannot detect something they do not have the sensors for.

It doesn't prove anything IRL wrong.

Sound still doesn't exist in space, hence the need for an advanced sensor to synthesize it.

It's amazing how you treat the Mandalorians, who have more resources than you do, like a third world country.
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter I: Diplomatic Tides    Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:03 pm

Did I ever say it proved anything in the real world wrong? The real world is the real world. It has its characteristics just like the fictitious Star Wars universe does. No matter what you say, it will still be as it is. If sound didn't exist in space, then why would there be an aural sensor to detect the sounds in space? Regardless, for something to be detected, it must exist. If it does not exist, then it cannot be detected. Now don't go on being an idiot and thinking sound does just because "the laws of physics which are, up to a certain point, MEANINGLESS in a FICTIONAL universe" say so. Really, get over yourself and actually look at the facts presented before you. Don't fight them.

Also, I still see no change in your post. Get to it, buddy. Your stubbornness will be your downfall. If you want to completely ruin the roleplay because you fail to listen to others, then so be it. Have it your way. Let the site die. My advice is stop being a whining baby, and listen to what others have to tell you. Listen to facts. Don't fight every little thing because you think you're right, or because you want to prove your point. All your doing is slowing game progress and destroying your own site. Also, there is no need to continue the argument, which is predicted of you.

Despite the Mandalorian Federation's collective wealth, stealth technology will not just flow into their arms. You are overpowering the Mandalorians too much. In SW reality, they should still be a one-man band on Mandalore, but since you just love your little pets so much, they have to have some significance in this game. Spare me all that nonsense you'll reply to me. The Mandalorians should not have the capabilities of detecting stealth ships. Heck, the only way the Galactic Alliance would be able to accomplish such (since the sensors used HUNDREDS OF YEARS AGO would be mere rumours by now) would be to use their extensive knowledge of stealth technology and cloaked vessels and build a sensor based on that.

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PostSubject: Re: Chapter I: Diplomatic Tides    Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:40 pm

Sound dose not exist in space, end off. All your lol!sensor would pick up is Vibrations, with is just useless in soo many ways, especially if your in an Gravitation field, such as an Asteroid belt, A planet, oh and space.

Oh and since it's not Light, it won't travel very fast, enjoy your 360 MP/H sensors!
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter I: Diplomatic Tides    Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:07 am

Laufey, please leave. This conversation does not involve you in any way. You have no authority on this site, and you are simply a player. Your criticism doesn't do anything but annoy people, and your words are quite meaningless when they are repetitive. This is between players that can actually prove their points, Nuch, and I. Don't tell me how Star Wars works. You are just a simpleton teenager that made no contributions to the Star Wars universe whatsoever. Thus, you would have no knowledge of every little thing. Just go.

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PostSubject: Re: Chapter I: Diplomatic Tides    Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:50 am

Martok wrote:
Laufey, please leave. This conversation does not involve you in any way. You have no authority on this site, and you are simply a player. Your criticism doesn't do anything but annoy people, and your words are quite meaningless when they are repetitive. This is between players that can actually prove their points, Nuch, and I. Don't tell me how Star Wars works. You are just a simpleton teenager that made no contributions to the Star Wars universe whatsoever. Thus, you would have no knowledge of every little thing. Just go.
You should really think about a career change to stand up comedy, your hilarious!

It's really funny thinking you can tell me what I can, and cannot do. Really is. I enjoy you attempts, there a good laugh.
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter I: Diplomatic Tides    Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:15 am

It is really funny how you still think you're an administrator Wink It's okay, buddy. I understand you have authority problems. Hey, therapy is always good for those kind of people.

Anyway, I don't need to deal with babbling fools. So, Nuch, will you make the necessary changes?

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